62: Releasing Pressures to be Perfect
With Amber Bateman, LPC
Do you feel pressured to do more than you can handle? In this episode, I talk with Amber Bateman, LPC about the cultural pressures to be perfect and:
• How to soften these pressures to take better care of yourself every day
• The importance of creating a lifestyle and rhythm that embraces self-care
• Welcoming in curiosity, connection, and slow living to support your sensitive nervous system
Amber is a licensed professional counselor with a background in communications and religious studies. She has over 15 years of experience in the helping profession, working in a variety of settings including a therapeutic wilderness camp, sexual assault response program, university counseling center, and private practice. She is a foodie and world traveler; lover of hot tea, herb gardens, and Marvel's Endgame.
Keep in touch with Amber:
• Website: https://www.delvementalhealth.com
• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/amberbatemanlpc
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/amber.bateman.586617
• Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@amberbatemanlpc
Resources Mentioned:
• Save Yourself Some Therapy: Four Modern Dangers to Mental Health & What To Do About It by Amber Bateman: https://www.delvementalhealth.com/book
• The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt: https://bookshop.org/a/63892/9780593655030
Thanks for listening!
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This episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Some links are affiliate links. You are under no obligation to purchase any book, product or service. I am not responsible for the quality or satisfaction of any purchase.
Episode Transcript
Amber Bateman: 0:00
We push ourselves and push ourselves until we're just exhausted, and then we get irritable and then we're like we need, I need the massage, I need the vacation, whereas I think that if we could make it more of a rhythm, more of a lifestyle of self-care, and especially for HSPs- welcome to sensitive stories, the podcast for the people who live with hearts and eyes wide open.
April Snow: 0:38
I'm your host, psychotherapist and author, april snow. I invite you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to join me as I deep dive into rich conversations with fellow highly sensitive people that will inspire you to live a more fulfilling life as an HSP, without all the overwhelm. In this episode, I talk with Amber Bateman about the cultural pressures to perform and be perfect, the importance of slowing down and connecting authentically with the people around you, and welcoming in curiosity about yourself and others. Amber is a licensed professional counselor with a background in communications and religious studies. She has over 15 years of experience in the helping profession, working in a variety of settings, including a therapeutic wilderness camp, sexual assault response program, university counseling Center and a private practice. She is a foodie and world traveler, lover of hot tea, herb gardens and Marvel's Endgame.
April Snow: 1:33
For more HSP resources and to see behind-the-scenes video from the podcast, join me on Instagram, tiktok or YouTube at Sensitive Strengths or sign up for my email list. Links are in the show notes and at sensitivestoriescom. And just a reminder that this episode is for educational purposes only and is not intended as a substitute for treatment with a mental health or medical professional. Let's dive in. So, amber, welcome to the podcast. I am so happy to have you here today to connect with you.
Amber Bateman: 2:21
Thank you, thanks for having me April, of course.
April Snow: 2:24
So I want to start off where we start every conversation with your HSP discovery story.
Amber Bateman: 2:29
So if you remember how or when you realized that you're highly sensitive, yes, so I was not familiar with the term until about five years ago, I think that's. I've heard that from a lot of HSPs that we didn't necessarily know the term and I think I I can't remember exactly where I heard the term, but I think it was through slow living YouTube channel, cause I had discovered the cottage fairy and some of those slow living YouTube channels and they talked about the term HSP and I just so resonated with that.
Amber Bateman: 3:05
I was like that is me, like I was drawn to the idea of slow living and being intentional and like embracing all of the senses, enjoying a hot cup of tea. But you know, I can think back to when I was a child and, yeah, like, absolutely I was very sensitive to textures and clothing and so my mom would try to put me in like lacy, frilly, polyester dresses and I would just be like itchy hate them.
Amber Bateman: 3:35
I hated cold water and we swam in cold water springs in Florida where I grew up, and all my siblings and cousins would be fine and I would break out in hives like literally have a reaction to the cold water. So there's things that I noticed as a kid that I'm like, I'm different, and actually my sisters had a joke. They had this phrase accept amber. So they would say, all of us want to go somewhere, or all of us want to go get a soda, except amber, and it was a teasing type thing.
Amber Bateman: 4:06
I love them and we tease each other. So it's fine but it was like they noticed you're different, you're sensitive, you don't want to do the things that the rest of us want to do and I was one of five kids and, yeah, it was true.
Amber Bateman: 4:19
Like I never denied it. I was like, yeah, I am different, like things that don't bother you, like fireworks I never really cared for fireworks because they were so loud and it was just too much, and staying up late was like, yeah, and they were like what is wrong with you? But I think it was super helpful to hear then this is a trait and I don't need to change this, but I need to figure out how to live the best way that I can and that it's not a character flaw, it's not a weakness, it's a part of who I am, and that there's strengths and beauty that come with this. And I think that was again. I wish I would have discovered it more early on, but no, I appreciate the work that's been done in that area.
April Snow: 5:03
Same. I know there's so many of us that had that similar experience where there are these clues whether it be sensory sensitivity or feeling deeply or feeling resistant to maybe doing certain things. We're like, oh, there's something different about me. I don't know what it is yet, but I know I'm different than my siblings or my classmates or my family, and it sticks out.
Amber Bateman: 5:25
And then years later you realize, oh, it's a trait yes, it's not my fault and that there's actually beauty in it and that I can't really even change it. I can work with it and I can make better choices with it, but at the end of the day, I'm going to always be this way to some extent. But at the end of the day, I'm going to always be this way to some extent, and I think that was very freeing for me to be like. This is who I am and how can I be the better version of it? But it's not going away.
April Snow: 5:55
That's it. I think that's so important to realize because a lot of people do think, oh, I can ignore it, I can push it away, I'll just put the mask on and try to be what everyone else is being. But it's not possible. And I appreciate you saying we can work with it. You can learn to regulate your emotions, you can work on resilience, but you're not changing how you're wired.
Amber Bateman: 6:15
No, yeah, yes, I think you summed it up perfectly.
April Snow: 6:20
So along with you, you touched on that. There's maybe some difficulties. There's some joys in it. Could you talk a little bit more about the pressures that you've experienced, not just as an HSP but as a multicultural woman? That intersection?
Amber Bateman: 6:32
Yeah, so a little bit about me and my family. My father is Caucasian, european-american, some Hungarian, some Lebanese, german-irish, hungarian, some Lebanese, german, irish, and my grandfather was an orphan who was raised by Catholic nuns many years ago and so he had a very tough personality. Pick yourself up by your own bootstraps, you just work hard, you just push through things. And he was a very strong personality and passed that on to my father and my aunts, and so on that side of the family there's a lot of pressure to perform right, to work really hard to, and even from a morality standpoint, they're very religious. So like ethically and living morally, there's a lot of pressure on that side.
Amber Bateman: 7:25
Um, and then my mom is Colombian, from Colombia, south America.
Amber Bateman: 7:29
She emigrated to the US when she was a child with her and her parents, her sister, and Latin culture is so different, yeah, than what my father's culture is, and I get more of my mom's looks from her side of the family.
Amber Bateman: 7:45
But, personality wise, I'm more like my dad, more driven, that kind of personality, and so as an HSP I've wanted to lean into the Latin side of my identity, but it's been challenging and I don't know if any other, if there's any other Latin or Hispanic, hispanic hsps out there, but the culture can be quite touchy, quite stimulating, quite. Boundaries can be hard to set in that culture because they're much more collectivist and less individualistic. And so one example is my mom and my aunts go to columbia to visit extended relatives, and I've always wanted to go. I love traveling in general but I find the idea super overwhelming because my mom will say things like oh, when we go, we got to sleep wherever they put us and we got to eat whatever they give you, and we're usually up till two in the morning talking and I'm just like, ah, like. To me it just sounds like basically she doesn't need it this way.
Amber Bateman: 8:48
But it sounds to me like you're not allowed to have any boundaries. You're not allowed to say no, because you'll offend them.
Amber Bateman: 8:55
And so I think it's been challenging as an HSP to be in Hispanic culture where I feel like I need to say no, and it's often interpreted as well. What's wrong? You don't like us, you don't want to be with us, and it has nothing to do with that. It's that it's too much. I can't stay up till 2 am. I just can't. I can't function the next day if I do that. So I think that has been hard to find what that looks like for me.
April Snow: 9:25
For sure. And first off, coming from kind of two opposing cultures or different cultures or just kind of different energy and expectations, and yeah, to have to not know where you're sleeping, to always have to go with the flow, to not know what you're eating, to stay up so late, I could see that could be super dysregulating for an HSP. You're not the first HSP I've heard this from who's part of that culture. Yeah, definitely some overlap there. It's like how do I regulate myself? How do I maintain those connections and not offend anyone or hurt anyone? It's not personal, it's more just about trying to keep your balance.
Amber Bateman: 10:03
Yes, yes, yes, yeah. So I think that can be hard, but there's joy in it too.
April Snow: 10:08
Right.
Amber Bateman: 10:09
I love my culture. I love, I love being multicultural because I think it just offers me so much perspective in the other people's world. And I've traveled a lot. I've been to 17 countries foreign countries Amazing and I've spent I've spent a significant amount of time in other cultures and I love it, but I do find like I have to take care of myself. I have to somehow work with the pressures of respecting culture and also respecting myself and my own needs, and that's challenging.
April Snow: 10:43
Yeah, it sounds hard to find to try to balance the two. I'm curious, before we move on is there I'm wondering, like, what are some of the joys of being part of that culture that you find are supportive for you as an HSP?
Amber Bateman: 10:54
Yes. So for Latin culture, ah, the food, the, yeah, the sensory food thing. I love food from different cultures and Latin food is so good. I think about my grandma's food and just going to her house and like smelling the chicken boiling on the stove there. My grandmother, my little Latin grandmother, was also a gardener and I think I really get that from her. I love gardening and she she could grow anything in white sugar sand in Florida she grew avocados and pineapples and all kinds of stuff.
Amber Bateman: 11:31
So I think the they also are slower too. It's interesting. They can be overstimulating in the amount of people and the noise, what's going on, but they're slower in terms of pace. Yeah, we have time to eat. We may not eat till 10 pm. We've got time. Yeah, like we can slow down, we can enjoy deep conversation.
Amber Bateman: 11:57
Yeah, there's not this, whereas I think on my dad's side there's much more of this push of we got to get to the next thing, we gotta be productive, we gotta keep going, and there's much more of this push of we got to get to the next thing. We got to be productive, we got to keep going, and there's a lot of stress that comes with that side, even though that's very much my natural bent. I need the slow, more Hispanic side. I need the side that says people are just as important, if not more important than task, than things that we need to get done and I tend to be more of a task person naturally, but I want to be and I appreciate the cultures that are more people focused, because I think really that's more important. They both have benefits. But yeah, so I don't know if that answers your question.
April Snow: 12:47
Oh, I love that it's like helping me just feel into the I don't know. The save saver is the word that came up for me. Yes, not just the food, but the time with people and the space that you have together, and I can see how that's a nice counterbalance. Oh, let's slow it down. Let's enjoy each other. Let's enjoy this meal and in some ways it's sensory overstimulating, but in other ways it's maybe sensory nourishing.
Amber Bateman: 13:11
Yes, that's right. I love that you're finding both yeah and Latin cultures tend to be a little bit more touchy too, and so again, more touchy too. So again, that can be overstimulating in some ways, but also can be nourishing and comforting and soothing as well. Because yeah, frankly, I don't think we get enough positive touch in our culture, in Western culture we tend to sexualize touch in general and I think that's a miss for our culture, because we need physical touch. We do it's very regulating.
Amber Bateman: 13:47
With our partners, with our friends, with children, with pets, with people in the community, and so I appreciate that about Latin culture too, because people touch each other Like it's not it's not, yeah, it doesn't have to be sexualized, it's just friendly and we're community and we're family and exactly yeah, it's a moment of connection of safety potentially right especially for our sensitive people, it can be really soothing to our nervous systems.
April Snow: 14:16
Yes to norm. Have that normalized. I imagine is really helpful.
Amber Bateman: 14:20
Yeah, yeah. And again, if you can develop self-awareness and have the self-care to know, okay, what do I need in this moment? And it might be I need a break, I might need to step away, I might need some time to myself.
April Snow: 14:38
That's, I think where the key lies. I appreciate you sharing your personal experience with these pressures. I'm wondering if there's other cultural pressures that you see in your practice and the people that you support, or are you seeing this very thing?
Amber Bateman: 14:51
Yeah, yes for sure, and I'm currently taking a little bit of a break from counseling because I've had a rough year, yes, in seeing clients and in my friends and in myself. I think modern women are under a lot of pressure. There's a lot of pressure to, I think, keep all the balls in the air to keep everything going, and 100, 200 years ago women didn't work as much outside of the home and I'm grateful that we have that opportunity. I'm glad that women have the opportunity now to have careers I have one but I think that with that comes a danger of too much, because most modern women are working either part-time or full-time, and or even a side job like selling something on etsy. Sure, I don't.
Amber Bateman: 15:43
I know very few women who are not doing anything right most of them are doing something to earn money financially and women are still taking on the majority of the household chores, the family obligations, the child care. I think it's starting to shift. I don't know what it's like in California. I feel like I'm seeing more men, like more other partners, helping out with childcare and that kind of thing, but I think it's been slow in coming and I think we're feeling it as women the, the, yeah, the pressures are immense and I think that we need to think about some things differently, it's true, yeah, yeah, we're saying I say in california there's maybe a different feeling, but a lot of women that I work with, who are mothers, who are caregivers, they're especially being highly sensitive.
April Snow: 16:39
They are very burned out, overwhelmed. They think they're wearing so many hats and, even if their partners are actively supportive, sometimes they're carrying a large mental load. They need to keep track of everything. Even if someone else is doing the task, they're still the one making sure it's getting done, whether that's with kids or partners or, yeah, family, yes, yeah, it's okay.
Amber Bateman: 17:00
Yeah, an example and's with kids or partners or, yeah, family, yes, yeah, it's okay. Yeah, an example and I love my husband. He's a wonderful man. He took the kids out to the pool but I was the one to get all the food together before they went. I was thinking ahead.
Amber Bateman: 17:12
So the mental pressure of even things like birthday cards for in-laws I feel like I hear a lot of women say that kind of thing. My partner, he doesn't care about those things or think about those things. And yeah, I think, as women again, in general, we're generalizing. Of course, we're thinking about a lot of different things at once and trying to balance them all and the cultural expectations are still unbalanced, I think, for the way that we've changed Again, like if a woman is going to stay at home full time and do traditional homemaking things, I think that's different. But I have seen so many women like they're working part time or full time jobs and yet the cultural expectation is that they should be the primary caregivers of the children. If I take my kids to the grocery store, nobody says anything. If my husband takes the kids to the grocery store, everyone's like oh, you're such a good dad, oh, it's so nice that you're babysitting your kids, and it's like wait a minute.
April Snow: 18:15
Right, the dad is also a parent.
Amber Bateman: 18:18
Yes, yes. And again, if a woman is working, then I think that that expectation should be adjusted.
April Snow: 18:26
Yeah, and should be changed. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Just to try to talk about balance earlier, there has to be balance coming somewhere and I think I see sensitive women being even more susceptible to this. Absolutely, this pressure.
Amber Bateman: 18:42
And.
April Snow: 18:42
I don't know if you see that too of oh, I have to take care of everyone it's impossible to say no. I need to make sure everyone else is okay and there's no. It's this compounded experience. There's no room for me yes, it's pretty dangerous yeah, it is.
Amber Bateman: 18:55
And I think, on top of that too, I don't think modern women know how to take care of themselves, because there is a lot of talk about self-care, but I think for a lot of modern women, they're imagining like I'm getting a massage or I'm drinking some wine or I'm sitting in a bubble bath and those things might be okay, they might be part of your self-care. Might be okay, that might be part of your self-care. But sometimes self-care looks like taking a 10-minute walk after supper or chatting with a friend, or it can look like different things, and so I think sometimes women push themselves, we push ourselves I'm in this category too. We push ourselves and push ourselves until we're just exhausted and then we get irritable and then we're like we need, I need the massage, I need the vacation, whereas I think that if we could make it more of a rhythm, more of a lifestyle of self-care and especially for HSPs, because we need so much more of that like I think it's really hard because, yeah, I, I'm a super driven person, I'm in the center on the extroversion scale, so I'm like 50% extrovert, so I love people, I'm charismatic, a natural leader, and so like I can just push myself and push myself, because I think I feel the cultural pressure of if you can do it, you should do it.
Amber Bateman: 20:21
Right, and I don't think that's written anywhere, but I feel it everywhere. If you can do it, you should be doing it. If you're smart enough, you should be running a business, you should be going to school, you should be starting a YouTube channel, you should be doing all the things. And just because I can doesn't necessarily mean that I should be or that.
Amber Bateman: 20:41
I should be right now, at this moment.
Amber Bateman: 20:44
Oh, that's a good distinction, you know. Yeah, because I think that sometimes we can feel like at least I'll speak for myself. I feel like I've got to do it right now. If I'm a licensed counselor and I have a book coming out which we're going to talk about in a minute, I feel the pressure from my editor, from friends and family, to be like you need to be getting this book out, you need to start a YouTube channel, you need to do all this stuff and they're not wrong, like to sell the book, like they're correct. But I can't do all of that and raise my kids and do all the things that I feel called to do. Take care of my ever-changing needs too, because my needs are changing. What I could do at 21, I can't do. I'm almost 38 now. I can't do the all-nighters that I could do very rarely. Even at 21, I could barely do those, but I really can't do it now.
April Snow: 21:39
Yeah, I resonate with what you're saying so much because I'm also I'm in the middle of I just finished my first draft of the book and starting the editing. I'm like, I'm not a parent. I can't imagine keeping up that level of work and parenting children at the same time. There has you hit a breaking point, I imagine at some point where I where maybe I innately, could I have the capacity, the leadership skills, the charisma, whatever it is, to execute this task. But at what cost? And is this the right time? I think it's such important distinctions to make.
Amber Bateman: 22:14
Yeah, and our culture is so fast that I feel this constant push like now you got to do it now. It's got to be done now because you're going to miss the train, you're going to miss the window, you're going to miss the opportunity. You got to pull a straggler lead. It's a full-time job, some of this marketing stuff, even alone, and so, yeah, the expectations are too much and we can't do it all.
April Snow: 22:42
No, we really can't. There's things that I have done that took me five, 10 years to do, when I probably could have done it in a year, but I needed to find the right timing for me. That's right. I'm curious. I know that this is a side, but with your book, I'm just curious how long have you been thinking about this book before you actually started writing it?
Amber Bateman: 23:02
Yeah, yes. So I started thinking and writing this book it's two years really, from right now, because really it was the end of the summer what would that be? 2023, that I started getting the idea for it and started just jotting some things down and really it felt like an inspiration from the Lord. I'm a follower of Jesus no, not everyone is who's listening to the podcast, but for me it really felt. A divine calling is the only way I can really put it.
Amber Bateman: 23:32
So I started just writing this stuff down and I was like this isn't going to go anywhere Like I have self-published before, but I've never been traditionally published. And I was like, yeah, this isn't going to go anywhere. Like I have self-published before, but I've never been traditionally published. And I was like, yeah, this isn't going to happen. I don't have money for an agent. I didn't really even think about it, but I had some friends read it and they were all like this needs to be published. This is so good, it's so timely. And I was like, okay, so I submitted it to a few different places and got accepted.
Amber Bateman: 24:00
So, yeah, it was really surprising and I think it was such a joy writing it. It was like flowing out of me, so naturally that I think that's the only way I was able to do it, because, yeah, with work and family, I look back and I'm like I don't even know how I had time to do it, but it really didn't feel like a burden. I think it was just the right time, like it was the right space. It was the right time and I really wasn't stressing about perfectionism. I was like I feel like this is coming to me and so I'm just writing it and seeing where it goes.
April Snow: 24:35
I think that's such an important lesson of things will unfold when it's the right time.
Amber Bateman: 24:40
When you don't have and maybe that's a check-in if you're really struggling, I feel like you're pushing something uphill, maybe yes maybe it's okay to set it aside yes, and I think as hsps we're intuitive and we know that kind of I do because there was a second project a second, a novel that I've been working on and that I was pushing myself too hard for that. It was not coming as naturally but I was putting pressure on myself. It was like it's a good project, I want to get it done, and it partly contributed to a severe hormone imbalance earlier this year and was really rough and and I think there's a lot of pieces to what's happened, but a lot of it was just pressure and it wasn't even other people. That's the crazy thing, april. It's us, it's inside and we can blame it on other people. I think culturally there is a piece to that, but I don't know for me. For me at least, a lot of it is just internal oh yeah.
Amber Bateman: 25:42
I want to get stuff done. I want to be productive. I want other people to think highly of me yes, yeah it's. It's crazy the kind of pressure we can put on ourselves.
April Snow: 25:52
I know it's hard because there is that and, like you're saying, it's the ether. It's not always spoken, but there is that pressure in society, culturally, where you're supposed to be ambitious and high achieving at all times, no matter the cost, and it's we take that in and I think you and I seem to both be ambitious HSPs. We want to ride we want to do things Make a difference.
April Snow: 26:14
Make a difference, make an impact, absolutely, but making sure that we're not letting that be the sole driver And't. And I just want to come back to what you said about rhythmic self-care, because I've never, heard it put that way and I think that is so important.
April Snow: 26:29
And it's not just the one-offs, the occasional massage, the occasional night out with friends. It's just talk to someone actually just before this about divinity and spirituality and how okay it has it should be part of everyday life. And same sentiment Check in your self-care. They were saying spirituality should be Tiffany Green. I'll just name her, she was saying how spirituality and religious practices need to come in every day or every week. Frequency is really important. Same thing with self-care yes. What can we do that we can bring in regularly?
Amber Bateman: 27:04
Yes, because the pressures are regular. We live in a culture where the pressures are constant. Yes, I think if we lived in a culture where, once in a while, we got stressed, then once in a while, self-care would be nice. But we don't. We live in a culture that is stressful and constantly just putting so much stress on our bodies and minds, and so I think we have to be continuously keeping up with the rhythms of self-care, and they don't need to be big things. I think that's why people get overwhelmed. A lot of my clients would get overwhelmed with.
Amber Bateman: 27:41
I don't have time for self-care. I don't have time to do that. You're just giving me something else to do. Exactly, it's like I feel that I understand that, but it's small everyday practices and I talk a lot in the book about this. I think a lot of it is saying no to a lot of things, like we have to make space to be able to, because if you're rushing out the door every single day and then you fall into bed exhausted at 11 pm and you get up and do it all over again, yeah, there is a time for self-care. It's not going to be rhythmic because it's not a part of your habit. You don't have any margin to do that. And again, I'm very much empathized with that. I live in this culture too and so I know it's hard, but I think that we need it because our mental health is. We're struggling as the country, young people, especially women, especially everyone really. But yeah, I think we've desperately need something different, a slower pace of life in general.
April Snow: 28:48
We really do. Everything is moving way too fast, and not just for the HSPs, for everyone. That's right. Everyone is feeling it, yes. So I know this is a big question, but how do we start to work with those pressures? How can we start to maybe undo them or take care of ourselves, if you have any ideas about that?
Amber Bateman: 29:07
Yeah, I have a lot of ideas about it, but two things I think that come to mind. One, and for women especially one is reduce your time online. We hear this, but it's so true.
Amber Bateman: 29:21
I just finished reading the Anxious Generation and I'm like, ah, like it is. It's such a danger. And I know that there's benefits to social media. I know that there's where we wouldn't be writing and talking if we weren't on the internet. So I'm not saying it's all bad, but it's, in general, too much, too frequent.
Amber Bateman: 29:44
And for women he was saying in the Anxious Generation book, like girls and women are just, we're just so much more susceptible to pressures, to wanting to fit in, to wanting to impress other people. I still want to keep up with my friends and have the cute house and wear the cute clothes and be a good parent or a good therapist or, oh, truly spending less time online and more time with real people, with your real friends. Yes, having coffee, having people over to your home, going over to other people's homes, going for walks, like doing those healthy self-care rhythms with your people. I really think that because when we see each other in real life, like when I go to my friend's house and I see that her house is just as messy as mine is, or or that her kids are just as messy, or she doesn't always look cute and put together, it's healing for me Because if all I see is her curated Instagram picture. I'm going to think that's how she is every day, even though I know it's not you need to see it.
Amber Bateman: 31:01
I need to see it.
Amber Bateman: 31:02
I need to see in real life, in real time, that she's a real human being, need to see in real life, in real time, that she's a real human being.
Amber Bateman: 31:10
So that and then I think secondly is I think we need to create a more safe culture within the community of women, Because I know I'm speaking generally again, but in general we can be mean. We can be mean, yeah, in terms of I think it starts in middle school and those mean girls talking trashy about everybody else and so, I think, not gossiping. That's something that I have been so convicted about and I've tried to grow in a lot over the last 10 years really to not talk negatively or even just evaluating other people, other women, my friends and and it happens all the time when I started paying attention to it, I'm like, oh my goodness, like everywhere you go, women are talking about other women or what her marriage is, what her choice of this and that and what she posted. I think it creates this anxious feeling because we all know, okay, if I'm participating and this is happening, who's talking about me?
April Snow: 32:14
Somebody's talking about me.
Amber Bateman: 32:16
I don't want them talking about me, and so I think, on a real practical level, I'm committing and I would invite other people to commit to. Let's create a safer culture where we're not gossiping, we're not evaluating other people's performance constantly.
April Snow: 32:34
let people be humans it's so true, I have both of these pieces and in real life connection, being mindful about what you're saying about other people. It's yeah, there's permission to be human, to be yourself, to not have to live with this constant pressure to be perfect. Yes, yeah, and how can we contribute to that? My wife and I just started having a phrase. We say process, don't speculate, because we're trying not to do that.
April Snow: 33:01
Love it. Let's not be part of that. Yes, let's just be. With our own experience, I lived through that in middle school the mean girl mentality. It's so pervasive. I love this invitation. Can we just put that aside and be kind and be generous with people being kind and being curious about other people's experiences like the curiosity piece.
Amber Bateman: 33:25
I think that changed me in becoming a therapist. Like just the curious piece, like I want to know about you and I want to know what makes you tick. And you have different views than me or you do life differently, but I'm really curious about you and I want to know. And so I think being a therapist has taught me to do that for other people as well, just in everyday life. And, yeah, I think that's super important and something practical that we really can all do. This it's hard, it sounds easy, but it's actually truly pretty difficult, oh yeah.
April Snow: 33:57
It's hard, especially because, growing up in a family, seeing whoever left first was the person to be talked about and so it's okay. Yeah, it's hard to pull out of that because it's so normalized yeah, everybody talks about everybody, and oh, let's just talk about ourselves, that's right our own experience.
Amber Bateman: 34:15
Yeah, and it puts us when we do that. It puts us in defend mode. Uh, jonathan in the anxious generation book was talking about like discovery mode versus defend mode and that a lot of us are in defend mode. We're always defensive, we're always like ready to be attacked, and that's obviously not good for our nervous system, it's not good for our health. But I think it begs the question like am I doing that for other people? Am I providing safety and kindness and curiosity? And it doesn't mean I can't share my opinion or share my thoughts, but can I do it with curiosity and respect? And people know? I think people know when you're being genuine versus when you're being pushy, mean, disrespectful.
April Snow: 35:03
Absolutely. I appreciate that distinction of yeah, can we cultivate discovery versus putting people on the defensive. Yes, that's something that I'm gonna start to look at more myself too, like how can? I make sure that I'm being curious and creating a safe space for people, because yeah, there's. There's enough of that happening in the world there is, and again, social media.
Amber Bateman: 35:24
I think we live in a very polarized culture and, yeah, if you look on social media, everybody's on defend mode. Somebody could say something wasn't supposed to be attack, but immediately people are in defend mode. And I understand. People have convictions, people have strong feelings I have strong feelings, but not everything is an attack exactly and I think a lot of.
April Snow: 35:47
I've removed myself from a lot of engagement with that because I think a lot of people are just they want to just fight, to fight and they're not open to listening. I asked someone this yesterday I was like do you actually change anyone's mind, do you? Yeah, do you feel like, you know, do it going into those fights actually has an impact? I'd rather do it like this person to person.
Amber Bateman: 36:08
Yeah, me too. I'm with you on that April.
April Snow: 36:11
Amber, we're getting short on time and I really appreciate this conversation, but just want to see if there's any other thoughts or final messages you wanted to share with folks about dealing with these pressures and coming back and being curious and connected.
Amber Bateman: 36:25
Yes, put a little plug in for my book that's coming out.
April Snow: 36:28
Yes, absolutely.
Amber Bateman: 36:31
September 30th 2025. I am. My book is called Save Yourself Some Therapy. Love it. Four Modern Dangers to Our Mental Health and what to Do About it.
Amber Bateman: 36:41
So I lay out four major dangers and hurriedness is one of the touched on this that I think are really detrimental to our culture, to our mental health, and so I lay a case for these four dangers, then some really practical steps for what to do about it, what to do differently. It's a very short, concise little book, so if you don't have a lot of time to read, it's a short little book. It is intended for Christian audiences. There's some sections there that are for Christians, but I really think that anybody would get a lot from it. If you're really uncomfortable, you could skip over the Christian parts if you really want to, but there's a lot packed into this tiny little book that I think a lot of people would enjoy.
Amber Bateman: 37:23
So, I'll put a little plug out there for that. But yeah, no, I'm super excited for your book too and look forward to seeing that as well whenever it's time for it to come out.
April Snow: 37:38
Yeah, it'll be another year for me, but excited for your book, because hurrying and we as we know hurrying will stress our nervous systems. A lot of HSPs could benefit from slowing things down. It's our natural rhythm. We're wired to pause, to reflect and so that I think will really resonate for folks Just that unhooking from that pressure to have to go so fast and do all the things. Thank you so much. I will definitely share that in the show notes. Also, your website, your social media links yeah, I'm excited for folks to connect with you.
Amber Bateman: 38:11
Thanks so much, april. Really appreciate the opportunity to chat with you today, for sure.
April Snow: 38:17
It was a joy. Thank you, yeah, Thank you. Thanks so much for joining me and Amber for today's conversation. What I hope you'll remember is that you don't have to do everything perfectly. If you're ready to slow down and unhook from the pressure to be perfect all the time, you can pick up Amber's book at the link in the show notes or at delvementalhealthcom. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe to the Sensitive Stories podcast so you don't miss our upcoming conversations. Reviews and ratings are also helpful and appreciated For behind the scenes content and more HSB resources. You can sign up for my email list or follow Sensitive Strengths on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. Check out the show notes or sensitivestoriescom for all the resources from today's episode. Thanks for listening.
